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If at first you don't succeed...
October 14th 2005, 16:59 CEST by Gunp01nt

Lionhead’s Black & White may very well hold the title for Most Overhyped Game Ever. A remarkable contrast to the sequel, Black & White 2, which went gold late september in a relatively silent fashion. The game is to be on store shelves October 7th. That’s this Friday.

Not even Peter Molyneux would be stupid enough to ignore all the criticism surrounding the first game, and B&W 2 features a lot of improvements over its predecessor. For one thing, creature training/raising seems to play an even bigger role. The game offers you five different creatures to play, being lion, wolf, cow, ape. And tiger, but only if you buy the Collectors Edition.

I personally think this is a pretty interesting move on Lionhead’s part. Of course, it reeks of what jaded folk would refer to as ‘marketing’, and it has been done before, sort of. But extra content is most often seen in the form of new maps, weapons or enemies, or a combination thereof. Given the central role that your creature plays in B&W 2, and the fact that each creature has its own specific properties that can have a huge impact on the game, the extra creature represents a lot more than just a 3D model.

We could talk about several things here. One of them would be: what are the merits of this marketing trick as a business model, ie. completely modular games where you decide what you pay for?
Or we could talk about Black & White 2. Will it fail again, or succeed this time around? You decide. As long as we can have a focused discussion for more than three posts.
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Home » Topic: If at first you don't succeed...

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#18 by Matt Perkins
2005-10-14 21:23:43
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
Very interesting, insightful and good review gaggle.  Thanks.

"I stand with Comrade Kwango in saying that these are bastards." - Kun Suk Tang
#19 by Gunp01nt
2005-10-14 21:45:01
supersimon33@hotmail.com
That's a great mcgreview, gaggle.


General question here. Do you ever have those days where you're just doing your thing as always, but you notice that for some reason people respond really awkward to you, all of a sudden? Then you start looking into mirroring surfaces to check if you aren't accidentally wearing a giant shiny cowboy hat without realizing it? But you can't really fathom what the exact nature of the awkwardness is, whether people are sorta laughing at you or impressed by a charm you never knew you had*?

I'm having that today, and it's really freaking me out.



*) theory triggered by the fact that womenfolk seem the most susceptible to it, and you generally get the feeling people aren't responding to you in a negative way, just a really weird way

You fuck with Infogrames and you get a visit from Big Pierre, who rearranges your kneecaps with a week-old baguette.
 - Mr. Nutty
#20 by bago
2005-10-14 23:23:59
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
It's the tail end of breakup season and everyone is on the prowl?

The need for an ever-fresh selection of euphemisms about dirty subjects has long served as an impressive engine of linguistic invention.
#21 by bago
2005-10-14 23:33:57
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
The theory of Stupid Design.


The theory of Stupid Design (SD) holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are so ridiculous that there must have been an unintelligent designer behind them, rather than an intelligent designer or an undirected process such as natural selection. SD is thus a scientific disagreement with the core claim of creationist theory that the apparent design of living systems actually makes fucking sense.


The need for an ever-fresh selection of euphemisms about dirty subjects has long served as an impressive engine of linguistic invention.
#22 by Battle-Dwarf
2005-10-14 23:58:38
www.myspace.com/OlSchoolMedia
It's the tail end of breakup season and everyone is on the prowl?---bago



Nailed it.

Usually around (last quarter of the fiscal year) just after September (fall semester of school) is the period where everyone is hooking up with everyone. It begins with the annoying Hallowe'en party (come October) and depending on the maturity of the lovers involved can end at the Thanksgiving family dinner (come November) or  nuclear bomb on the given cheap Christmas gifts (come December)!



BD

They say a midget standin' on the giant's shoulder can see much further than the giant...
#23 by Gunp01nt
2005-10-15 00:02:43
supersimon33@hotmail.com
#21 bago
The theory of Stupid Design.


Related Onion article

You fuck with Infogrames and you get a visit from Big Pierre, who rearranges your kneecaps with a week-old baguette.
 - Mr. Nutty
#24 by Ashiran
2005-10-15 00:18:16
I installed B&W2 after half an hour into the second level.

Molyneux took all that fancy AI of his and crammed it into this piece of TRASH in a completely wrong way. I'm not a God I'm a nurse with a 1000 children. Very VERY dumb children.

Nihil nequit.
#25 by gaggle
2005-10-15 00:21:22
So are there conveniently located centralized gender-seperated hotspots where these newly-broken-up folks congregate? Just curious..


I often forget to take a look in the mirror before leaving for work, which one can easily end up regretting on days like those Gunp01nt describes. Not that there's been anything wrong yet, but imagining there might be is an obvious handicap in and of itself.



But always keep in mind that any interest anyone ever shows for you is all make-believe by hormones and chemistry in your brain.

"O Avô vem salvar"
#26 by Shadarr
2005-10-15 00:25:05
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I installed B&W2 after half an hour into the second level.

Neat trick.

Without me, Internet would never have had sex with the DS. -m0nty
#27 by Ashiran
2005-10-15 00:29:34
I know. It's so amazing I had to format my harddrive before I could play it.

Nihil nequit.
#28 by gaggle
2005-10-15 00:33:14
Did they do, or rather not do, anything in particular Ash? Maybe something you can desribe? From listening to some of the things that occured to my friends that also played the game it often seemed like we were playing completly seperate games (on account of different bugs being triggered I suppose). So it could be interesting hearing how they behaved in your world.

I generally found the childr -- the population behaving.. ah.. well sufficient. Well more or less. I usually didn't have to make more than the bare neccessary disciples* at any rate. Oh but then I didn't give two flying fucks about their happiness, I was a down and dirty hovel and skyscraper guy. I also sacrificed children on the altar every now and again, but I guess that's not a terribly relevant piece of information.


* Dedicated workers. The nondisciple population work fewer hours but are supposed to automagically shift their work to whatever profession most needing it. I.e. you should get more and more people harvesting the bigger the army you recruit.

"O Avô vem salvar"
#29 by Marsh Davies
2005-10-15 00:36:42
www.verbalchilli.com
Heh. Serenity is no. 1 at the UK box office.

#30 by Mister Nutty
2005-10-15 00:40:57
So, along with horrible taste in food, a useless monarchy and bad dentistry, the people of the UK also have no taste in movies?

YHBT. YHL. HAND
#31 by Trunks
2005-10-15 00:42:52
Looks like NYC is in our back pocket. From the article:

"...Now, therefore I, Michael Bloomberg, Mayor of the city of New York, do hereby extend my best wishes that the force be with you and proclaim October 13, 2005 in the city of New York as Star Wars day."

Darth Vader accepted the proclamation on behalf of LucasArts.

I'm surprised EA hasn't done something like this first. Though I get the feeling the BK King guy will not like Vader running around in front of the competition. Insert "altering the deal" movie quote here.

#32 by bago
2005-10-15 00:46:09
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
There's a certain extended stare that roughly translates to "Yes, I will sleep with you". You just have to recognize it.

The need for an ever-fresh selection of euphemisms about dirty subjects has long served as an impressive engine of linguistic invention.
#33 by Ergo
2005-10-15 00:50:50
#30 Mister Nutty
the people of the UK also have no taste in movies?

Yep. They paid money to see Bulletproof Monk.

Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.
DVDs
#34 by Marsh Davies
2005-10-15 01:01:22
www.verbalchilli.com
Ergo
They paid money to see Bulletproof Monk.

We did?

YF
the people of the UK also have no taste in movies?

Ironic considering the no. 1 movie at the USA box office is a British movie.

#35 by Ergo
2005-10-15 01:14:32
Marsh--

Inside joke.

Intaxication: Euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.
DVDs
#36 by bago
2005-10-15 02:06:42
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Here's a good inside joke:

Localizing to German is easy

 
1. Start with English text
“This big jar of tomato sauce will be great for making pizza”

2. Remove prepositions
“This big jar tomato sauce will be great making pizza”

3. Remove spaces randomly
“This bigjar tomatosauce will be great makingpizza”

4. Replace The, This, That, etc. with “Das”
“Das bigjar tomatosauce will be great makingpizza”

5. Replace verbs with something German-sounding
“Das bigjar tomatosauce schleiten great makingpizza”

6. Add spurious umlauts and other high-ASCII characters
“Das ßigjar tomatosaucen schleiten über makingpizzä”

7. A few finishing touches… serve cold with excellent beer
 “Das ßigjar tomatosaucen schleiten über makingpizzä!”

The need for an ever-fresh selection of euphemisms about dirty subjects has long served as an impressive engine of linguistic invention.
#37 by Sgt Hulka
2005-10-15 02:18:40
k, off to see Ben Folds.. Somebody clean this place up before I get back.

#38 by Mister Nutty
2005-10-15 02:45:52
I didn't know Ben Folds had a redneck fanbase.

YHBT. YHL. HAND
#39 by McBain
2005-10-15 03:17:29
[blog]

So I'm back from Arizona, finally.  It's a really nice place that will burn in the hell fire of peak oil.  The Mexican food was fantastic.  I went to a couple of Ma and Pa style Mexican places, analagous to the Italian restaurants you would find in Boston.  The weather is beautiful.  Everything is a bit too spread out, lots of suburban sprawl.  Cool plant life.  Things really shut down at night, there aren't many street lights and they keep them dim because there is a fair amount of astronomy done in the area.

I'd definitely go again to visit for fun rather than business.

[/blog]

Kid: Because you went to the bathroom on mommy's dishes?
Willie: What the fuck? No!
#40 by gaggle
2005-10-15 03:20:51
But you can't place the eszett character at the beginning of a word bago, never at the beginning. I mean you're just not adhering to proper grammar here!

"O Avô vem salvar"
#41 by gaggle
2005-10-15 03:24:15
McBain, did you and our persona loca local manage to hook up? Or.. was that not the designated area where you and he were to be able to meet? I'm not up to speed with all the threads, so apologies if my question fails to make sense.

"O Avô vem salvar"
#42 by yotsuya
2005-10-15 03:24:19
FYI, it's Tucson, McBain. We have apartment complexes here in Phoenix that are bigger.

"It's only make-believe until it becomes flim-flam."
#43 by yotsuya
2005-10-15 03:26:46
Gaggle-

He was in the southern part of the state.

"It's only make-believe until it becomes flim-flam."
#44 by Hugin
2005-10-15 06:09:14
lmccain@nber.org
Night Watch/Nochnoy Dozor is a bad movie, but there are some fun ideas in it.  It would make an awesome TV series.  Sort of CSI meets World of Darkness. The movie though?  Not so good. Lots of style, terrible pacing, disjointed structure, barely coherent plot.
#45 by Leslie Nassar
2005-10-15 06:29:21
http://departmentofinternets.com
i agree with what you said

hi. i like you. do you like me?
#46 by LordDrucifer
2005-10-15 07:05:56
Yasta11@hotmail.com
Huge Wood Farmer
2005-10-14 20:48:20



Whoa, a Micheal Jackson joke? COme on, have a little self respect.

Yeah... I should have said Samuel Jackson, because he's nothing more than a monkey.

ooo racial slur.

Slack ass, slap face, slack rope, and slap Bass. Fold in a cup of cocaine. Now you have Drucifer's Quintessence.
#47 by Mister Nutty
2005-10-15 08:43:54
The Mexican food in San Diego is better than the shit they have in Arizona.

YHBT. YHL. HAND
#48 by yotsuya
2005-10-15 09:50:43
Oh, fuck your mother. People in San Diego want real Mexican food, they have to drive down to TJ.

"It's only make-believe until it becomes flim-flam."
#49 by lwf
2005-10-15 10:15:53
Fuck the Mexicans.

If you ask me, she's the misogynist.
#50 by Gunp01nt
2005-10-15 13:12:14
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Installed and played several minutes of Chronicles of Riddick. I love the original menu concept. The game itself is really original, it really seems to blend adventure elements into an FPS. The gameplay is really good, sort of a quicker version of Thief with more acrobatics.

You fuck with Infogrames and you get a visit from Big Pierre, who rearranges your kneecaps with a week-old baguette.
 - Mr. Nutty
#51 by bago
2005-10-15 14:00:36
manga_Rando@hotmail.com
Ugh. Fucking Absinthe!

The need for an ever-fresh selection of euphemisms about dirty subjects has long served as an impressive engine of linguistic invention.
#52 by Neale
2005-10-15 14:30:38
neale@pimurho.co.uk www.pimurho.co.uk
As an alternative to mayonnaise?

I have a hard time accepting that anyone could achieve this miraculously high level of stupidity. - Caryn
#53 by Gunp01nt
2005-10-15 14:49:08
supersimon33@hotmail.com
Would seem to sting a lot.

You fuck with Infogrames and you get a visit from Big Pierre, who rearranges your kneecaps with a week-old baguette.
 - Mr. Nutty
#54 by Jibble
2005-10-15 16:16:03
#48 yotsuya
Oh, fuck your mother. People in San Diego want real Mexican food, they have to drive down to TJ.

Troll. Food. Stop.

Blog. SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
220 lbs.  40 to go.
#55 by deadlock
2005-10-15 17:00:39
http://www.deadlocked.org/
gunpoint:

I think you'll enjoy Riddick. It's not without it's flaws, but it's very entertaining. I'd be interested to know if Starbreeze could pull off a similar feat with a more established license (and one that therefore carries a lot more hassle and interference from the righs-holder).

#56 by forgone
2005-10-15 17:29:28
forgoc@yahoo.com
That Ben Folds Five song Smoke is great.
#57 by Gunp01nt
2005-10-15 18:23:14
supersimon33@hotmail.com
deadlock:
I played it some more for the last 4 hours, and I'm totally hooked on it already!
Even though I had to turn the graphic quality down a few notches to get it to the point where it's sort of playable, the game looks really good and is extremely entertaining. It has the pacing of an actual action movie and original content. I did hate the sewer part where the Gollum family attacks you, and I just talked to Pope Joe and now it looks like I'm gonna have to go back down there.

But man, this is a great game.

You fuck with Infogrames and you get a visit from Big Pierre, who rearranges your kneecaps with a week-old baguette.
 - Mr. Nutty
#58 by Sgt Hulka
2005-10-15 18:26:33
The Ben Folds concert was simply amazing. He didn't play that song forgone, but plenty of other favorites.  Awesome show, highly recommended

#59 by Mister Nutty
2005-10-15 18:56:14
Oh, fuck your mother. People in San Diego want real Mexican food, they have to drive down to TJ.


I took a Mexican food appreciation class in college, I know what good Mexican food tastes like.

Also, the only reason anyone goes to TJ is so they can drink when they are underage and watch donkey shows.

YHBT. YHL. HAND
#60 by Dumdeedum
2005-10-15 19:08:10
http://www.dumdeedum.com
I did hate the sewer part where the Gollum family attacks you, and I just talked to Pope Joe and now it looks like I'm gonna have to go back down there.

Yep, you've got a bunch of gollum people to kill yet, and I'm pretty sure they're infinitely spawning gollum people too.  Or at least I know I had to beat a whole bunch of them to death with my fists.

MP3 Of The Week: Koop - Waltz for Koop.mp3 (Thanks Anonymous!)
#61 by Marsh Davies
2005-10-15 19:10:25
www.verbalchilli.com
I took a Mexican food appreciation class in college

You had to learn how to like food at school? What the fuck kind of educational system do you have in San Diego? I'd like to see the method of assessment there. "You'll enjoy that chili con carne, young Nutty, or it'll be detention for you!"

#62 by deadlock
2005-10-15 19:14:52
http://www.deadlocked.org/
gunpoint:

yeah you've to face more Gollum people, but the next section is mercifully short and it's worth it for the reward.

#63 by gaggle
2005-10-15 19:30:37
Riddick, in my mind, has to be awarded some sort of Best Produced Game Of All Time award. The quality it sets right from the beginning in terms of visuals and storytelling and such are maintained throughout, the story unfolds pleasantly around you, the gameplay and environments keeps shifting to keep things reasonably fresh, and it even manages that ever-rare success of having a good and proper ending. There ain't too many games around with just a tenth of Riddick's excellence.

I don't mean to imply you have to like it of course, but I think, based on its peers and what the developers were trying to accomplish, that the game should be considered a technically excellent piece of work. Even if you don't like the genre or gameplay it has qualities The Industry™ sorely needs.

"O Avô vem salvar"
#64 by Greg
2005-10-15 20:41:42
Maybe he, you know, learned all about how they prepared it, the historical elements behind it, etc. I would figure it's more involved than going to Taco Bell and Don Pablos and writing comparative essays.

こんにちは
#65 by Jibble
2005-10-15 20:46:29
Troll. Food. How are you people not getting this?

Blog. SANTAK, BANKOROK, TOMATO!
220 lbs.  40 to go.
#66 by yotsuya
2005-10-15 21:01:39
Jibble, shut up.

"It's only make-believe until it becomes flim-flam."
#67 by forgone
2005-10-15 21:05:24
forgoc@yahoo.com
I went down to TJ once for a kidney transplant.
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